I've been an atheist for maybe two years now. I was formerly a baptist Christian. My parents are still christian, although not quite baptists. To get to the point, they really havent bothered me much about it, but lately, they have been really stressing me out. My mom cries about how I will never find joy, and I've turned my back on God, (I'm sure yall have heard it before). Lately with the coronavirus though, my parents are panicking. My mother especially is believing some seriously crazy conspiracy theories about the "end times" and it's all she will talk about. I'm locked in the house with these people. What's worse is I'm made to feel like the bigoted, bitter atheist, when from the bottom of my heart I have tried to see their point as hard as I could. They will not reciprocate any such thing. Could anyone share some similar experiences and how they got through their situation? I have no friends or family of a like mind so I do feel very intellectually alone. And I'm new to this website so I do apologize if I put this in the wrong place. Thanks for reading if you got this far!
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Well, yes, we have encountered similar stories as yours...nix the covid 19. All I can tell you, is to remain calm, and use reason and rationality, in a decidedly calm manor, when interacting with your parents. However, if you think they are going to hurt you or themselves, get them help. Remember, even though they can't realize it, you are the voice of reason in that house. My father had religion, however, was not an irrational man. Being a professor and scientist, his belief did not affect his profession or work, nor his personal home life. As I became more outspoken about my atheism, he withdrew from his opinion of his belief in my presence. I took this as respectful, as he did not withdraw as my father. If your parents do not have respect, remind them you are their son, and that you love, and respect them...if you have to, suggest the same. Lets hope you don't have to. Take care.
Thank you for the words :)
Welcome to AR, and your post is perfectly placed.
I typically advise not letting theists who are in a position of authority over you, know that you are an atheist. Many of us learned that the hard way, like you are probably learning now. You never know how they will react. People don't like being told the emperor has no clothes.
Have they started blaming your atheism for random problems, for example: flat tires, someone losing a job, or other unrelated bad things? Might want to prepare yourself emotionally for that.
I see now the mistake that I have made. I thought they would be respectful, and they were for a while, but that seems to be changing. And they havent blamed me for that yet, fortunately. I'll say my situation is definitely much less extreme than the majority of situations. I might start getting blamed for things if my mother gets much more hysterical though. If this virus gets any worse I'm not sure how she will respond.
Hi Cooper. Welcome to the site. Unfortunately being in close proximity with others has the result of intensifying feelings. This is called the "Proximity Principle." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_principle
Not only will your parents experience emotions stronger but so will you. A good thing to do might be to find a way out of the house if you can.
Something else that might be useful is understanding the ABCs of rational thought. A activating event. B belief C consequence.
Our reaction to events "C" are NEVER about the event itself "A." Instead, our reaction to events "C" are about OUR BELIEF "B" about the event.
"Change your mind and you can change your world."
What do you tell yourself when mom begins her rant?
1. She thinks I'm not a good person.
2. She has stupid beliefs?
3. She should stop bothering me! (I want her to stop.) Don't should on yourself.
4. Whatever your thoughts are.
Your thoughts are the "BELIEFS" you bring to the party. BYOB. Bring your own Beliefs. It is your own beliefs that cause you to feel stuck and not your mother's.
Perhaps your mother is simply showing you that she loves you. Why not thank her for her concern?
Perhaps your mothers beliefs are just silly and funny. Why not play with them?
Perhaps you could convince your mom that you are listening to her by encouraging her to write them all down for you so she would not have to keep repeating herself. You could then quickly translate them into a bullet format and ask her if the list you made was correct. If she says yes. Thank her. If she says no, hand her the list and have her to it again. When she tries to talk to you, ask her to put it on the list.
Whatever you do, the secret to getting along lies with you. You can change your Beliefs. They are not going to change theirs and you can not change another person's beliefs. (A mind changed against its will is of the same opinion still.)
You have the power to get along. Do you have the ability? To do so, you must take a hard look at your own belief system regarding mom's behavior. You must "Reframe" (look at it in a different way) the behavior in such a way that it becomes bearable. Only then will you be able to think of an effective and useful way to reply. What you are doing now is not working. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again while expecting a different result.
PERSONAL STORY TIME:
My mother was a BITCH. She complained morning till night, every day and about every little thing that happened. I mentally left home when I was 8 years old, (another story), and I physically left at 16, I was 18 before I realized I was exactly like her and began to become my own person. I was 21 when I finally learned to deal with all her negative bullshit.
I just stopped owning the shit she said and began parroting it back to her in mock jest.
I hate this fucking traffic.
Yes, what assholes, don't they know you are on the road. Honk at them again!
It's fucking raining again today.
That's ridiculous, don't the damn clouds know you have important things to do.
Anyway, you get the idea. Before I began doing this my mom would bitch and I would tell myself, "Fuck I hate when she does that." "Why in the fuck doesn't she stop bitching." "I hate being around this woman."
Mom still bitches from sun up to sun down and I still don't enjoy being around her but I have completely stopped taking anything she says seriously. "The grass is getting too fucking long." "God damn that grass. It hates you. It wants you to have to go out there in the hot sun and cut it. That's just disrespectful. You should pull it all out and grow rocks!"
I still do not like being around my mom. I prefer to have people around me who are a positive influence. But I am no longer a slave to her ignorant anger.
Theres certainly a lot to unpack here! Thanks for the response. First, I have never heard of the proximity principle. That makes a lot of sense actually. I was aware of the ABC method but still fantastic advice. My mother definitely loves me and I think that her perceived anger may be desperation to prevent me from going to hell. I think a fair bit of blame does lie on myself. Not an excuse, but when she tells me all these things about her god, I cant help but to get angry. Then she sees it like I'm angry at her God, so I just shoot myself in the foot. I'll take your advice, I probably could benefit from making my mom feel heard, and also as you said, reframing the behavior. I will also try to get less upset when these conversations do occur. Thank you for the advice! It's nice to have some input instead of trying to do everything myself. I love this website already haha
@Cooper Exley: Not an excuse, but when she tells me all these things about her god, I cant help but to get angry.
IT IS AN EXCUSE: No one ever makes you angry. Each and every time you have ever been angry in your entire life, it is for one reason and one reason only.
YOU ARE NOT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT: (Every single case.)
Anger is a secondary emotion. It is always an attempt at manipulation to get what you want. (Guess What? You can't always have what you want!!!)
A baby wants a cookie and mommy says, "No" so the baby flies into a fit of anger. The worst thing in the world the mommy can do is give the kid a cookie. When you get angry, your mom leaves you alone? She is teaching you to use anger to get what you want.
You are standing in the line at the supermarket and you are in a bit of a hurry. The old lady in front of you begins digging through her coin purse for pennies that she can not find. She is fucking slowing you down. Why in the fuck didn't she have money ready while she was standing there in line.... You get angry because you want her to do things your way.
Some asshole cuts you off in traffic. What the fuck is his problem? What a disrespectful cunt! Why in the fuck didn't he look and use a turn signal. Then the asshole has the balls to flip me off. Fuck that son of a bitch!!! "I want him to learn how to fucking drive and treat me with respect."
The situation does not matter. At the core of every anger reaction is a desire. You are not getting what you want and anger is your way of trying to get what you want. (Fuck me... no.... fuck you.... and suddenly you are in a road rage incident.)
You are in fact, in complete control of your anger. That does not mean that it is not a useful tool and it does not mean that anger can not be justified. However, if you do not recognize it as a tool, you will use it incorrectly over and over and over again. It will cause you more problems than it will solve.
"Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy."
Aristotle
Stop Trying To Change Your Mom! Leave her alone. Do something different! The next time your mom starts in, Stand on the coffee table and Sing the Star Spangled Banner.
Mom does not have a little secret button that she can push that automatically makes you angry. That little secret button is in your own mind and you are hiding it from yourself.
P.S. Don't tell anyone around here about our conversation. They are all convinced I am stupid.
@Cog - a sextillion agrees. :)
And a sense of humor. Find the funny. I’m going to tell you a true story...at first it may not seem funny BUT it is...
I have Crohns. So this one time my best friend has to rush me to the city hospital because I have a full on blockage. I’m in intense pain (it’s a 2 hour drive). We get there and she lets me off at a door marked “Emergency”. We didn’t see the arrow pointing to a different entrance, so I have to walk through all these corridors, about 10 min, to get to Emerg.
She’s there, apologizing like crazy, and I’m like, “it’s ok, don’t worry”. So after an evaluation, Emerg puts me at the top of the list (up there with heart attacks) but I’m informed that all beds are full in Emerg...so they grab a gurney and wheel me into a closet.
My best friend turns on the light (not really, it was on), but after about 10-15 min, she’s out looking for someone to at least give me morphine. She comes back and says they’re busy (weird look on face).
Then we hear it. Some Jehovah’s Witness is having a full out delusion “that Armageddon is happening and she’s seeing demons”. The staff are trying to get her off of the table and we hear one of them say “get a priest” (I take it the psychiatrist people were busy?!?!). Well fuck, both our eyes got big. JW think priest’s are Satan’s ministers... both of us look at each other and the thought “should we tell them?!!” Crossed our minds - briefly. Best friend just shut the door.
Point being...find the funny (inside your head) don’t straight up laugh at your mom.
I am aware of these things, which is why I meant that my anger is not excusable. I apologize if I worded that poorly. My point was that my anger is something that needs work.
@ Cooper Exley
Be angry at the con job that is called religion. Do not direct any anger towards your parents, they are just victims of this con.
Cooper Exley: Excellent! But don't work on the anger. Work on the beliefs. Work on the coping skills. As you get better at coping, you will find yourself having no time for anger. Each new thing you try, remember to pat yourself on the back and say that you did a good job, whether it works or not, you are trying new things. Next, just because something works the first time does not mean it will work the second.... stay flexible..... think on your feet. Have fun as you experiment!
@Cooper Exley
Welcome.I hope you find the support you need here.
So sorry to learn of your distress. Giving up any strongly held belief tends to be hard. Often because those on whom we should be able to expect support can be real arseholes.
A few ideas :
On the face of it, your mother seems to be trying to control you using emotional blackmail ( get you to feel guilty) Another person cannot control you without your consent.
Your mum may also be thinking she's a bad mother. Perhaps thank her for her love and concern AND for raising a son to think for himself and to be guide by his conscience, which is still in place.---THAT will not go away any time soon, if ever.
That perhaps the best thing she can possibly do for you is to accept you as you are.
Oh, you DO NOT have any responsibility either for HER feelings or to believe as she does.
Sadly, situations similar to yours come up regularly on this forum. Ironically, you will probably receive more understanding and compassion from this bunch of atheists than from a similar size group of Christians. ---see how you fare posting your situation on a christian in forum.
Cranky is offering some solid beliefs:
1. I believe my mother is just trying to get what she wants. When I say no, I expect her to get angry, just like a child being denied a cookie. (There is no reason for me to be angry in return. She has to learn that she can not always get what she wants.)
2. My mom may be thinking she is a bad mother. (Hold this belief and you can respond with; "Mom, thank you for your concern. You have always been a great mom and I know you want what is best for me. I am not changing my opinion but I appreciate your love and affection."
3. Accept you as you are? I want to change this. You can not make her accept you as you are. You can accept her as she is. "I know you and I do not agree on everything, I love you and appreciate you anyway. " (Bring it in for a hug!)
4. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER FEELINGS!!!! You should repeat this as a mantra. No truer words have ever been spoken. AND SHE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ANGER!!~!! Get over it. You are angry because you are not getting what you want. Sometimes, YOU CAN NOT HAVE WHAT YOU WANT!!! That is just a fact of life.
@cognostic
3." Accept you as you are? I want to change this. You can not make her accept you as you are. You can accept her as she is. "I know you and I do not agree on everything, I love you and appreciate you anyway. " (Bring it in for a hug!)"
Of Course! Now it comes back: We cannot change the feelings and behaviours of others. We can however change our own. I read somewhere once that we can call ourselves grown up when we have forgiven our parents. Took me a very long time. .
I am dealing with a similar situation for the first time in my life.
I have close family I am now caring for within my own home that has very different opinion about god idea then I do. I was clever enough to avoid the subject in the past. In anticipation of their arrival I actually told them partially what they wanted to hear about the subject. I actually pretended to buy the kalam argument, a subject I know well from here. They did the rest of the talking for me. I could have said my house my rules, which I did say, but long before the subject of religion came up. I did this little lie to:
1) Get them to more readily agree with what was more important - Respecting the state mandated physical distancing laws.
2) now is the not the time for religious debate within our household when none of us can leave to cool our jets.
3) I know that transitioning away from a god idea they built their lives around is a frightening process for most, I do not want to rip out their comfort blankie at a time like this.
4) It is still very unlikely I would ever be able change their mind about their god idea.
Take the high road on this, let your family/roommates/etc have their delusions, as long as they are not endangering anyone.
Logic is offering you a few rational beliefs here.
1. There is no way I will ever change their mind
2. Let them have their delusions. (They are simply not mine) Thank them for sharing and for feeling comfortable enough to share.
3. Now is not the time for a religious debate. We are stuck in the house together so lets just try to get along. (Good advice for you.... you can not force them to agree. It is a good BELIEF for you.
4. Distance laws? I don't think you have a choice here.
Welcome to Atheist Republic Cooper Exley.
Never forget you love your mother and father.