Hey guys! Been a while since I posted, but I assure you I lurk here every day, reading all the threads. I love this place!
Anyway, something popped in my head early this morning as I was drinking my coffee. Religionists have their gods to pray to and ask forgiveness for things they've done wrong. Basically a built-in conscious clearing system for whenever the need arises. But how do we atheists forgive ourselves when we do or say things we later regret?
There are a few specific instances in my life where I said or did something I really regret. All those times I was under incredible stress or pressure. I try not to live with regret, but every once in a while those instances pop into my head, and I feel bad. I always do my best to learn from my mistakes, and to not make the same ones again. I console myself with this fact, but sometimes the past still bothers me. How do you all forgive yourselves for things you regret doing/saying?
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You do not forgive yourself. Never forgive yourself. That is a really dumb idea. You remember the things you have done and you think about the person you want to be. When those things don't match up, you double your efforts. Those who forget the past are destined to repeat it. Accept the fact that you are a human being and that you are capable of not only doing the things you have done but also doing all the things that all human beings have done before you under the correct circumstances. Do not pretend you are better than anyone else. Know you are fallible just like everyone else and your journey through this life is exactly what you make it. Choose wisely. If you do not like the choices you have made, stop making them. It's just that simple.
Now, with that said. If you have harmed another in any way, nothing works better than admitting it to them and apologizing or making amends when possible. At least you can then pat yourself on the back for taking personal responsibility. The reaction of those you have harmed does not matter. You don't get to control them. You only control yourself. It may do you good to know that there are people in the world that do not like you for some of the things you have done.
What does you no good at all is praying to a magical floating third party who can forgive you and make you forget your errors in life. That is completely immoral and it demonstrates a complete lack of empathy towards others as well as accountability./ There is no escaping the things you have done, not even by magic. You do not forgive yourself, you accept yourself as you are and then you ask the hard question, "Am I who I want to be?"
Cognostic has said it very well. You may learn to live with what you have done, but much better is to attempt at least to make amends either directly or indirectly.
I still get the 'shudders' when I think of my indiscretions and inwardly wince at a demanding memory. I can excuse myself for some actions, explain others; forgive? No. Live with:Yes.
I find it easier to forgive others.
Cognostic summed it up will. Own your actions, take personal responsibility. And of you can, make amends.
just try to think it over and learn from what you have experience...
contemplate and make amend for your conscience sake...
Personal forgiveness is a construct created by religions to make it easier to sleep at night. After all, you need some absolution after murdering in cold blood and destroying entire nations. No, we should not forgive ourselves. Rather, we should try our hardest to be good to people the first time around. We don't get easy absolution, and we don't get an easy out for crises of conscience. For us, the best we can do is to make amends, and always attempt to be the best person we can. We have no excuses, so we shouldn't have the need for them either.
Great thread, Cali. And I agree that Cog really nailed it. I have done things in my life that I am not proud of, and will never forgive myself for doing. However, as much as it may pain me to remember them from time to time, I have to remind myself it is because of those painful memories that I continually push myself to be a better person and try to make amends for those mistakes. If I were to ever "forgive myself" and then eventually forget the pain and guilt I felt as a result of my actions, then I would lose the incentive to avoid taking those same actions in the future. We learn to live with the pain and guilt, not try to cover it up as if it never happened.
I have had counseling for PTSD and depression many times, and basically accepting responsibility is the first step. You must also make restitution if possible, sincere apologies that sort of thing. Then you must learn from your mistakes.
You must also accept that you are not perfect, will never be perfect. Also, don't accept judgment by others as a measuring stick for your own behavior. You know what is right or wrong and if you are wrong accept it.
And for cryin' out loud don't dwell upon it. That will just make things worse.
TLDR: Forgive yourself, you are human, carrying guilt serves no constructive purpose.
I take a different tact the most here. I allow myself to forgive myself. First, I make sure I learn from my mistakes and take steps to ensure I do not repeat the mistake. I try to make amends where possible. We are human and imperfect. Mistakes happen, I feel if we learn from the mistakes, and better ourselves and do not repeat them, we are allowed to forgive ourselves.
Some people feel it is necessary to not forgive themselves as a sort of self punishment, (usually makes people feel a little less guilty if they still suffer for what they did rather than forgiving themselves.) Or possibly even to not forgive themselves so they do not easily forget and repeat the mistake. I take the stance that you can remember not to repeat a mistake just fine by simply remembering it. Not constantly beating yourself up for it.
However there are somethings that are much harder, especially if the pain and damage is on going. If you murder or permanently maim/disfigure another, that was not going to do the same to you, (self defense based murder/damage is in my mind, much easier to forgive oneself for.) Then you know someone elses loss or suffering is ongoing, and that makes it much harder to forgive yourself as your action in the past continues to inflict damage to present day.
I see many people that do not forgive themselves, (mostly theist actually even tho they have a built in "forgiveness" system.) And they suffer all their lives for it. Sometimes for some of the most silly things too. I stole 20 dollars from a friend once when I was kid. I beat myself up and could not forgive myself for many years for that. (Not too badly, I would only think about it on occasion.) Later as I read more, and learn more, I realized forgiving myself is important, and it is okay I am not saying what I did is no longer wrong I am simply forgiving myself for being a kid, being human I never stole money from anyone ever again. The friend likely long ago forgot all about it, I learned and did not repeat my mistake. Not carrying around guilt for it unburdens me and allows me to be even more at peace and accepting of myself.
If asking for forgiveness from the one you wronged is possible, and they give it, will obviously help along the process of self forgiveness. But that takes a lot of courage, as you also face the possibility of discovering they do not forgive you, and the damage you inflicted upon them is greater than you originally realized. And it requires truly owning up to the harm you have done.
In short, carrying around guilt and not forgiving yourself, serves little constructive use. Beyond the simple you are less likely to forget if you constantly beat yourself up over it, over dismissing it out of hand, it serves no constructive purpose. You can not forget and still forgive yourself. People like to think if because they carry guilt for things they have done wrong, others will carry guilt if they wronged you. They might, they might not, you put yourself at the mercy of how much others decide to feel guilty, (they may not even be aware of how they wronged you!) in this sort of invisible not said system some people have of guilt and forgiveness.
Sound logic and reasoning is the answer to how to forgive yourself absent the false, "denial crutch" many religions offer with their "forgiveness" system.
this thread is awesome I agree with cong :)
As atheists, how do you forgive yourselves?
To be wholly honest, I never do. If I screw up, I make amends, if I can. If I cannot, oh well.
I just chalk it up to a lesson learned and go on with my life.
Regrets? Lots. But I don't let them haunt me. As quickly as any other wild tangent that goes through my mind, so do those regrets.
Either get busy living, or get busy dying. (Shawshank Redemption)
rmfr
Actually, I'm perfect, so never have to worry!
:-)
Loved reading everyone's thoughts on this! Yes, I have apologized and made amends where I could. Also learned my lesson and never made the same mistake twice. So I take comfort in that, and look at it as all part of the learning process of life.
Yes California Girl, it is all part of the learning process. The biggest thing I learned was that if I did wrong, to learn from that mistake and make every effort not to repeat.
I really don't know how one would forgive themselves. What is done is done. You can never change that. I am the one that has to live with it. Accepting that you cannot go back and change that, while also acknowledging that you will not be divinely punished in this life or in some imagined afterlife, is really the only thing you can do. If you feel remorseful for doing something that affected someone else, and feel that you need forgiveness, think what you can do that could make amends. If it is not a realistic option, the only thing you can do is learn to cope with it and try not to repeat the behavior, now that you are aware of its consequences. If it is traumatizing, seek professional help.
It has been my experience that regret is one of the worst emotions a person can experience. It can give birth to every other negative emotion we can experience. Take your pick from fear, sadness, anger, among others. It has a benefit too. We can learn a lot from regret.
Sometimes you cannot forgive yourself. If a wrong is committed against another person, you might need to be absolved by that person in order to restore a healthy relationship. Whether your misdeed is personal or interpersonal, it is important to remember that there is no cosmic retribution to be had from either personal or interpersonal lack of absolution. The psychological penalty could become very real, though.
I find it important to realize that we have one life and that you make the same mistakes as everyone else. Live your life, learn from everything, and do better next time. Let go of whatever weighs you down and go on living a good life.
California Girl,
"How do you all forgive yourselves for things you regret doing/saying?"
Don't be like the biblical God Yahweh. When he saw things weren't working out like he wanted he got pissed and killed everything except for what was on the ark.
Genesis 6:6-7 (CEV) = "6 He was very sorry that he had made them, 7 and he said, “I’ll destroy every living creature on earth! I’ll wipe out people, animals, birds, and reptiles. I’m sorry I ever made them.”
I read a story today about a woman who acted just like the God character did =
"Sweden mom charged in brutal slaying of her 7-year-old son"
"Police received three 911 calls in quick succession around 8:20 p.m. Thursday. Baxter said deputies arrived to find "an extreme, horrific crime scene," inside the home at 5499 S. Lake Road (Route 19) in Sweden.
According to court papers, Mouhib used a large-bladed kitchen knife to stab the victim in the upper-left area of the back and in his neck, causing the victim's head to become severed from his body."
https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/04/06/sweden-mother...
The funny thing about the case is that the woman was licensed as a nurse practitioner who specializes in mental health. So whether you're just an average Joe or a God you can go nuts at any time.