So I’m up at 4am this morning, make my coffee, grab a smoke and sit out on my doorstep. Beautiful night sky.
A light grey van pulls up in front and I watch with curiousity. A young guy, about early 20s gets out the passenger side and walks around the front of the van. On the same side, another guy gets out, heads around the back of the van, leaving the driver. They’re wearing dark clothes with dark touques (Canadian speak for a tight head, usually knit, hat). My brow furrows, and my spider senses kick in. I set down my coffee cup.
Idiotstick (guy in front of van) notices me. Freezes and looks like a deer caught in the headlights. Dumbass (guy from back of van) doesn’t notice and is on my property checking to see if my vehicle is unlocked. Idiotstick makes “cawing” noise to get dumbasses attention.
“Hey dumbass!” I yell, “I’m sitting right here! Get the fuck off my property!”
Dumbass freaks and almost slips on the ice hurrying to the vehicle where the “getaway driver” is pumped and ready to go...idiotstick has already hightailed it.
I call the RCMP. And I’m disappointed. It takes the RCMP about 25-30min to respond, more than enough time to bury bodies ;)
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Cautionary tale:
A farmer in NZ had been targeted several times by thieves. One night he heard a noise in his equipment shed and rushed out onto his verandah with a rifle in time to see a ute heading away down his drive with one guy standing on the deck hanging onto the back of the cab. He fired a warning shot over their heads. Just at that instant the ute went over a bump in the driveway and lurched up just enough for the head of the guy on the deck to intersect the bullet's trajectory.
So was that an act of god or a deterministic outcome governed purely by the laws of physics? Either way, guess who got the longest prison sentence of all the actors in that little drama?
@Algebe
"A farmer in NZ had been targeted several times by thieves. One night he heard a noise in his equipment shed and rushed out onto his verandah with a rifle in time to see a ute heading away down his drive with one guy standing on the deck hanging onto the back of the cab. He fired a warning shot over their heads. Just at that instant the ute went over a bump in the driveway and lurched up just enough for the head of the guy on the deck to intersect the bullet's trajectory."
Are you familiar with the term 'urban myth' ? Was the farmer charged? Not actually self defence . I don't suppose you have a news reference?
This my favourite : Bloke is on a motor bike, riding along the main North Road, about 20 miles from Adelaide . He is riding behind a truck with a load of galvanised iron sheets. There is sudden gust of wind. A sheet of iron is lifted off the truck, and blows towards bike rider. The galv takes his head clean off. Apparently, his bike continued for about a hundred metres. Man in car behind bike rider is traumatised, and runs into the ditch along the side of the road.
@Cranky47:
The incident I mentioned was back in the 80s. I can't find a news reference. Yes. He was charged and convicted (manslaughter from memory).
Here's one for a similar case in 2002.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3000562
Here's another one about a farmer who was put on trial after killing an intruder.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10557174
This one happened in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/20/tonymartin.ukcrime3
@Cranky47:
The incident I mentioned was back in the 80s. I can't find a news reference. Yes. He was charged and convicted (manslaughter from memory).
Here's one for a similar case in 2002.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3000562
Here's another one about a farmer who was put on trial after killing an intruder.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10557174
This one happened in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/20/tonymartin.ukcrime3
@Algebe
Interesting tale.
Does not surprise me the guy that killed another person as they fled got the longest prison sentence. The other people were just stealing stuff, he killed someone, possibly by being grossly negligent, best case scenario.
I do not know how "long" the guys driveway was, and how far away a truck speeding away would be. But for just a bump moving a guys head even a foot or 2 higher than usual, indicates to me the guy was aiming for the truck, not firing a warning shot. We will never know for sure, but what we do know, the guy could of "fired" his useless warning shot even 1 degree higher into the sky above the truck and this would of never happened.
My guess his well paid defense team went the route of making it look possibly accidental, to reduce this guys sentence. I am no expert, but to me, that guy shot some thieves in the back of the head as they fled. Which of course is really bad optics so they went with a defense that cannot be proven eithir way to enter the shadow of the doubt that likely lessened this guys sentence.
I am sure some folks will disagree with me, but just because someone is stealing something from someone's outdoor property, and then flee, does not mean people can just shoot at them as they flee, and in this case led to the thief's death. The person doing the firing was clearly not in any bodily danger at the time he fired the shot.
Of course this is all based on the very limited information of the above post.
Are you kidding me???? In Alberta it’s different.
Hence, the backhoe digging a hole :)
I've heard of a similar case in Wales. I'm not sure about Canada, but in most Brit countries, a man's home is definitely not his castle.
@ Whitefire13
"Are you kidding me???? In Alberta it’s different."
Having lived in Alberta for four years, I can attest that some people in Alberta make rednecks look like social justice warriors.
Yes. Yes we do :)
This might actually be an urban myth but the story goes like this, a guy is approaching his parked car when he notices the front passenger door is open. A stranger is lying across the passenger seat rummaging under the dashboard. The car owner, a big guy who can look after himself opens the driver door and slides into the drivers seat and simply says "Oy". Without looking the intruder says, "You can hotwire it if you like. I'm only after the cd player."
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/alberta/a...
It’s different here.
@Whitefire13: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... great story. It's unfortunate that police are more interested in policing for profit and writing tickets to get money from the average Joe than they are in solving crimes. There is no money in running down a van full of miscreants. It takes too long and it interferes with their ability to make their monthly ticket quota.
@Cognostic
"There is no money in running down a van full of miscreants. It takes too long and it interferes with their ability to make their monthly ticket quota."
Here strict adherence to traffic laws and being very sly rakes in millions for the State Government. Speed cameras especially.
About 6 weeks ago, I was out in my Mazda 2, going up the freeway, which has several speed limits, some of which change according to conditions. I simply do not speed, ever. Imagine my ire and surprise when I was pinged for doing 112 kmh in a 90 kmh zone. Simply did not see the signage for the change from 110 to 90 kmh. That cost me a $418 fine and three demerit points.
I guess I need to be especially vigilant. Jeez, I already stop for orange lights.
However, what you say is true. My sis was once a brown bomber (parking inspector; they wear brown) ) and yes, she had quotas.
My sis was and remains an inverse snob, like most of my family. She took special glee booking high end cars.They got no leeway. .That was reserved for old clunkers. Not that she ever told any of her work mates.
The RCMP is good. I live about 20-30 min out from civilization.
Fascinatin
Last self defence case I heard of here was an 80 something man who killed an intruder who was armed with a knife.
He was not charged.
At Pt Augusta ,a country town ; A publican was asleep upstairs with his wife and children . There was an intruder armed with a rifle. Publican shot the intruder dead. He was not charged
. Turned out the intruder was a 16 yr old indigenous boy. There was hell to pay from the indigenous community. Publican had to sell up and move.
I wasn't there, so can make no judgement
I have a serious plan to move to Arkansas. Cherokee Village, near hardy. Rivers. Lakes, fishing, hunting. and relative isolation. Not only am I looking for a place to live but guns to protect that place as well. It's a semi resort area and home burglary is one of the top crimes.
@Cognostic
One of the most commonly stolen things from homes in the USA?
Guns. Veteran thieves (instead of the more common opportunist,) even target known gun collectors. Pretty simple to surveil the house for a little bit and wait for the house to be empty.
And guns sell really well on the black market. Sometimes going for more than their retail prices at a store. Plus they love to have them for themselves. "Hot" jewelry sells for less 1/10th their retail value on the black market. Electronics even less than that (as they age out so quickly.)
This of course is partially true simply because so many folks do not bother to buy an expensive safe and store their guns in said expensive safe constantly.
That said, owning a shotgun that is kept in a safe, may possibly useful one day, and you do not even have to worry about aim or who may be behind the target. The intimidation factor alone should be enough 99% of the time if they do not manage to surprise you and catch you w/o your shotgun pointed at them.
Violent crime, including robbery is way down in the USA over the last few decades. I work in cyber security, now there's a crime area that has been expanding rapidly year after year. Most of career criminals are switching over to that, as it is far more lucrative, far safer (for the thieves) and far harder to get caught.
@LogicFTW
"One of the most commonly stolen things from homes in the USA?
Guns. "
Now why doesn't that surprise me?
Of course, here in Oz it's extremely difficult to legally own a firearm of any kind if you are an urbanite. Farmers and professional hunters may own low calibre rifles for shooting foxes, 'roos, rabbits ,wild goats, pigs, feral cats, and other vermin. They may not own automatic weapons.
A whole range of other weapons are also banned. This includes bladed weapons, blades over 5 inches long, some forms of bows, nunchakus and ninja type weapons such as Bo Shurikens.
Our gun and general weapons laws became quite strict after the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre. New Laws were in place within a month. At the same time, there was a general amnesty and government buy-back of firearms. The government spent over $200 million guying back guns.
Since that time there have been no mass shootings in Australia. AND the use of firearms in armed robberies has become rare.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
"The Port Arthur massacre of 28–29 April 1996 was a mass shooting in which 35 people were killed and 23 wounded in Port Arthur, Tasmania. The murderer, Martin Bryant, pleaded guilty and was given 35 life sentences without possibility of parole. Fundamental changes of gun control laws within Australia followed the incident. The case is the worst massacre in the modern history of Australia.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)
@LOGIC: Yea, i was looking at some shotgun pistols. Easy to shoot inside a home with all its angles, plenty of penetration but not so much that the bullets / buck will fly into the street out front and kill someone in a passing car. My hunting guns and bow, will of course, be locked up.
@Cognostic
Not far from where I grew up. Make sure your place has a tornado shelter! You'll thank me some day!
@Nyarlathotep. Been looking into it and also the cost of building one.
Yeah, I'd guess most nice places have something in the way of tornado protection; basement, cellar, or something. Hell I don't even know what is adequate and what isn't, but I do know you'll want access to one. Maybe something you should ask your real estate agent about.
I lived in a mobile home when I was a child in Arkansas. We had to shelter in a neighbor's cellar, who lived a few hundred yards away. Having to run those 300 yards, in the dark, in a hailstorm, in your jammies, WHILE the siren was blaring indicating that actual tornadoes were on the ground in your area, a couple times a year; left a big impression on me!
@ Cog
You don't need a gun, your poo flinging accuracy would put any miscreant to flight. If that dont work the jumping up and down on all fours while screaming will surely do the trick.
Your other speciality will get you arrested.
@Cog
Sounds lovely. I’ve lived in big cities, medium, small and now isolated. I’ve loved them all. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.
I’ve got lots of forest, lakes around. Beautiful scenery, clear night skies. Quiet except for the animals and bugs and frogs. Birds galore and wild rabbits that I feed. Coyotes and foxes at night.
Lots of hard physical work. Love it.
Also want to add that I’ve seen more crime out here than in the city. You have to be prepared to defend yourself.
There is a huge lot of nothing but isolated forest (20,000 acres, 20 km of waterfront, and great hunting and fishing) up for sale on Manitoulin Island. That is on my list of things to buy if I win the lottery.
https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Vacant-Land-For-Sale/ON/Gordon-Barrie-Isl...
And immediately after I buy that property, I will get four Tibetan Mastiffs. These are not mere shepherd or guard dogs, they are bred to patrol outside of camps and flocks to fight off wolves, bears, and large predators. They are active all night and can handle the cold. To paraphrase Mr T, I pity the fool who visits me at night.
@David
You got the right idea ;)
BTW when I say “ You have to be prepared to defend yourself.”. Doesn’t mean shoot anything you see lol. Not a gun-toter myself, have a low caliber for small (coyotes) animals, but sound works just as well and haven’t had to shoot anything yet.
True story: (A little lengthy. Sorry...)
A few months ago I was getting a few things done around the house late one afternoon and was heading upstairs when I heard a knock at our back door. Now, a bit of necessary info real quick. We live in a somewhat isolated rural area on five acres of wooded land about a quarter mile off the main road at the end of a dead end driveway. Large pond in the front of our house. And with the exception of maybe two acres cleared directly around the house, thick wooded area surrounding the remainder of the perimeter. Nearest (only) neighbor a couple of hundred of feet away across a thinly wooded area to the right of our house. We are the only two houses on the long dead end driveway from the main road.
So, anyway, knocking at the back door. INSTANT caution lights flashing in my brain, because NOBODY ever knocks at our back door. Anybody approaching the house via the proper route would have NO reason to go to our back door. It is quite obvious which entry a visitor should use. Okay, so then I start back down the stairs and start hearing a muffled voice sounding like somebody saying, "Hey, anybody home? Hello. Anybody inside?"... *knock-knock-knock*... *Hello? Anybody home?"... *knock-knock-knock*.... This continued as I approached the door. (It should be noted the back door has a large window with blinds, and the blinds were closed. There is also a full-glass storm door on the outside of that.) I got to the door and peeked through the blinds. There stood a shirtless guy in baggy/sagging blue jeans with greasy looking unkempt hair, scraggly goatee, and a couple of jailhouse tats on his arm. He was very skinny with a gaunt face and sunken eyes (Maybe in his mid-thirties), and he was holding open the storm door while trying to look inside through the spaces between the blinder slats. "Who is it?", I said loudly. His response was, "Hey, please let me in! There are some guys chasing me and I need a ride home!" (We have just gone to full red alert, ladies and gentlemen.) With the kitchen being right next to the back door, I naturally took three steps over to my fridge and removed a pistol (one of many I own) from the top of it. With the pistol held behind my back, I returned to the door and opened the blinds. By that time, the guy had become more agitated and was even twisting/turning on the door knob while practically babbling things such as, "Please let me in! One of the guys is in the woods looking at me right now! A couple of Mexicans kidnapped me and put me in the trunk of their car and I was able to escape when they stopped at the Dollar Store down the road." (In my mind during all of this, "Seriously? Are you fucking kidding me? THAT is the best you could come up with?") So, I told him as I was dialing 9-1-1, "Hang on a second, man. I'm calling the police for you." His response?... "Aw, man, you don't have to do that. I just really need a ride home. Could you please just take me home?" (In my mind: "Wow, this guy really sucks at this.") Then he continues to beg me to let him in, because he is afraid one of his captors will come out of the woods to get him.
Operator answers: "9-1-1, what's your emergency?"
Me: (calm nonchalant tone with just the right amount of subtle skepticism) "Yes, ma'am. I have a guy here at my back door telling me he was kidnapped and put in the trunk of a car, but was able to escape and run to my house. And he also claims one of his captors is currently watching him from the woods behind my house as we speak."
(The guy was yelling almost non-stop during the call, and at one point stated again how he was afraid the guy in the woods was going to run out and get him. The 9-1-1 operator hears the guy and asks me if everything is okay.)
Me: (talking loudly to the guy through the door) "Hey, calm down, okay? Believe me, if anybody comes out of those woods to try to hurt you, they will have a VERY bad day. I promise."
Operator: "Ooooh... Okay. I see now. Alright, sir, I'll have a deputy on the way."
Hung up the phone and directed the guy to go to the garage side of my house within view of the driveway and my neighbor's house. I grabbed a bottle of water on my way outside and picked up a chair in the garage to take out with me. The guy was outside my garage door waiting for me. I handed him the bottle of water and placed the chair just outside the door and directed him to have a seat. The entire time, I was holding my pistol out of his view behind my back in a relaxed manner. Aaaaaand the wait begins... We live on the extreme northern edge of our county, and the County Deputies are few and far between out in our parts. During our wait, I dig more and more of the guy's kidnap story out of him. To say it was a heaping pile of colossal bullshit would be an understatement. Anyway, I maintained control of him verbally, along with a few "psychological" tricks I picked up over the years on the streets. At one point during our wait, he stood up and started digging through his pockets as if looking for something specific. And upon pulling his hand from his right front pants pocket, I observed he was holding a good-sized folding pocket knife in his hand. Luckily for him, it was closed. Even though I was watching him VERY closely, I pretended not to notice. However, my grip on the pistol tightened slightly, and I very subtly adjusted my stance to a more reactive position. As if reading my mind, the guy quickly placed the knife back in his pocket as if, "Oops! Didn't mean to get that out."
The deputy finally arrived. I gave him a quick briefing, and then he started questioning the guy. I helpfully corrected a few parts where the guy's story to the deputy differed from what he told me. Naturally, the deputy reached the same conclusion I did. (Basically, the guy was a typical meth-head there casing my house in an effort to break in.) It wasn't spoken, but the deputy and I shared a look that said it all. Even so, the deputy played along with they guy and got him in the back of his patrol vehicle without incident. (Yes, I did let the deputy know about the knife in the guy's pocket before he performed a pat down.) Oh, and here's the fun part. Before they left, I asked the deputy to allow me to give the guy a trespass warning. "Certainly, sir. Go right ahead."... "Thank you, deputy."...
Me to guy (Let's call him "Joe".): "Hey, Joe, I'm really sorry about what happened to you today. However, be that as it may, I strongly suggest you never ever step foot on my property again. If for some reason you find yourself in a similar situation somewhere down the road, you really do need to find another house to approach. Matter of fact, you actually had to pass by several other houses to get to mine if you actually came from the direction you told me. Anyway, I am telling you this for your own safety and well-being, Joe, because I would REALLY hate something bad happening to you if you should be seen on this property again. Oh, and just to let you know, I can assure you my neighbor over there feels the exact same way I do. And if you look around, EVERYTHING within your sight right now belongs to either me or my neighbor. So, basically, you should totally avoid stepping off the main road should you ever be back in this area again. By the way, I just want you to know you are very lucky it was me here today instead of my wife. She is not nearly as patient as I am, and pretty much has orders to shoot-on-sight should somebody like you show up uninvited. So, hey, man, I am simply trying to look out for YOUR safety. Know what I mean?"
Meanwhile, the deputy was standing slightly off to the side doing his best to keep a straight face the whole time. They finally left, and I have never heard anything more about the incident. Here's the thing, though... There were multiple moments during our encounter where it would have been EXTREMELY easy for me to justify putting multiple rounds into that idiot and have him carried away in a coroner's vehicle. And to be totally honest, I admit it was very tempting to do so. For some reason, though, I refrained. Not exactly sure why, either. Was the guy a potential threat? Oh, yes! Absolutely. But I knew how to handle the situation, and I was able to maintain control the entire time. I never gave him the opportunity to feel as if he had the advantage. Whether I was using my posture, subtle body movements, the tone of my voice, or just my overall calm demeanor, I kept him in a "submissive" mindset. Even so, I was absolutely seriously weighing the pros and cons of dropping him where he stood. I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision. And I wonder what the guy would think if he knew exactly how close he came to taking his last breath that day. Fact is, though, I may never know one way or the other.... *shrugging shoulders*...
@Tin: You are kinder than me. Well maybe. So I am asleep in a cheap second floor hotel room in Itewan, Seoul. I keep hearing this scratching sound like a screwdriver on a wall. I was out late and so I try to ignore it but I keep hearing the sound. At least 30 minutes go by and so I manage to stand and head to the toilet, Nature calls.
I hear the sound but can not pinpoint it. It sounds like it is outside. I go to the curtains that have been blocking out the morning sun and without moving them peak through a slit in the side.
There, on a ladder, is some Korean asshole with a screwdriver, removing the bars from my window. SERIOUSLY? What a shit for brains burglar. This is a cheap hotel. 30 bucks a night. No safe in the room. If I was gone, everything of value would be gone as well. As I am here, he must be after the dollar-fifty in change I still have in my pocket after my late night on the town. FUCK that guy, trying to take my last buck-fifty.
I go into the bathroom and wait. I wait about 15 minutes. Yes, I am just standing in the bathroom singing to the turds with the top of the toilet tank in my hands. I hear the window sliding open.
I peak around the corner and there he is, half in and half out of the window. He is bending at the waist and has one hand supporting his weight on the bed as he wriggles and squirms to get the rest of him through the window, I step out of the bathroom, into the middle of the room and yell "Good Morning Asshole," and let swing with the toilet tank cover. I beaned him in the shoulder and across the head at the same time. He is so lucky I did not have a baseball bat.
He manages to scramble out the window so fast that I didn't get a second swing. He missed he ladder on the way down as it swung to the side and fell away from the window. Lucky for him he did not break anything. When I looked out the window to see my handy work, all I saw what the ladder that had fallen. The victim of his own robbery attempt was no place to be seen. One very lucky guy by my measurement.
I went down stairs and told the owner that someone had tried to break into my room. He didn't care. Such is life in the cheap hotels of Seoul. The guy wanted nothing to do with the police. Obviously I wasn't hurt and would be checking out shortly. Everything was exactly as it should be. LOL I had a great breakfast that morning before catching the train home to Boryeong Shi. I think I might have waited for the asshole to enter my home.
@Cog Re: "I think I might have waited for the asshole to enter my home."
Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. But the circumstances did not lend me that opportunity. Once he knew I was in the house, he was not going to attempt entry. So he had to change his game plan and start making up the bullshit story to "explain" why he was there. Oh, and I failed to mention the guy was jacked up on whatever his drug of choice was. While we were outside waiting for the deputy I was hoping he might be stupid enough to do something foolish. Obviously he didn't, otherwise this story would have had a different ending. My sense of personal integrity can be really damn annoying sometimes.
Tin ... close to the same scenario BUT was told his brother was having a heart attack.
I didn’t open the door or go outside and prepared myself for two intruders. Told him I was calling 911 on his behalf and the operator stayed on the phone with me while the RCMP and ambulance made the trek out here.
Turned out he was telling the truth. His brother survived.
@Tin “ My sense of personal integrity can be really damn annoying sometimes.”
It’s there for a reason :) if it wasn’t you might be the shirtless high asshole...
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