I believe I've made it clear in my previous post that I'm NOT promoting the use of psychedelics.

The Pragmatic: Well, I agree in general. Especially when it comes to tribalism, shamanism. Personally, I doubt that this was the case with Christianity and Islam. I would say it's a higher probability that these religions were constructed by multiple parties after the death of the alleged prophet, than created by a single prophet who was "tripping".

Sure, I agree that Christianity and Islam were heavily contorted after their prophets died, but I'm not referring to the editing and re-editing of these religions, but the original claims as much as we can discern them. So, concepts like the Beatific vision or the agapé in Christianity resonate with the characteristics of the mystical experience.

The Pragmatic: But even if the assumption of "mystical experiences" was the basis of all religion, it's hardly a new idea. So I'm still trying to get the point. Each of these mystical experiences become strictly personal and each experience will be different.

The characteristics of this experience are essentially universal, but the mystical experience itself will be filtered through the individuals personality, cultural background, religious influence, etc. So that, for instance, Gautama because he lived in India, and because he was influenced by Hinduism, I believe he may have interpreted his mystical experience through the lens of Hinduism, and so founded Buddhism.

And you're right, it definitely isn't a new idea. Perennial philosophy goes all the way back to Neoplatonism, and even then you'll find the legendary Greek philosophers engaging in contemplative techniques to induce mystical experience. These practices influenced Christianity, consider Hesychasm or the practice of quietism by Christian mystics which involved the cessation of volition. The Christian mystics that lived c. 100 A.D. did refer to this state as "Christ consciousness." I believe they realized that what they were tapping into was precisely the same state that Jesus may have experienced. These techniques are quite akin to what is practiced in Zen Buddhism, techniques of quieting the mind, silencing the chatter of the ego, and the complete cessation of volition. Dr. Rick Strassman speculates that this is possibly a method of releasing one's own endogenous N,N-DMT.

So, why doesn't it happen today? Perhaps it does, but one reason it's not happening as seemingly frequent as it has in the past may be because most people imbibe many sources of food and drink that is contaminated with chemicals that calcify the pineal gland. That might inhibit your ability to have this experience naturally. So, what's the alternative? Is there an external source you could draw from to mimic the experience? Well, that's what I believe the Johns Hopkins study has shown, that you can, in fact, use psychedelics to induce mystical experience.

The Pragmatic: Really, so by doing this one can tap into some cosmic truth or something divine? Is that it?

That's basically it in a nutshell. What Perennial philosophy is saying is that within the major religions, the names such as "God, Brahman, nirvana, satori, etc." are simply metaphors that were enunciated to describe the inner experiential impression of the mystical experience.

Pragmatic: So what you are saying is that there is a Universal truth, that can be tapped into by achieving these "mystical experiences."

Well, yes, that is basically the claim of Perennial philosophy, and it is based in mystical experiences. What the scientific studies have shown is that there are universal characteristics within the mystical experience. The implication from there is a Perennial philosophy. People in the past may have started off in a religion, engaged in such techniques, and usually developed views that contradicted the mainstream religious views. Some mystics were careful about how they used their language, but others were burned at the stake for expressing such views, consider Giordano Bruno or they were excommunicated (Meister Eckhart). But they thought of themselves as Ficino who,and I quote,"saw his thought as part of a long development of philosophical truth, of ancient pre-Platonic philosophers (including Zoroaster, Hermes Trismegistus, Orpheus, Aglaophemus and Pythagoras) who reached their peak in Plato. The Prisca theologia, or venerable and ancient theology, which embodied the truth and could be found in all ages, was a vitally important idea for Ficino." They held latitudinarian views and held tolerance for other religions, and felt that this experience was at the basis of all the major religions.

The Pragmatic: "Universal" sounds like it's something out there, everywhere in some sense. Does that "Universal truth" refer to realizations about oneself and how one interprets the world, or does it mean something beyond ourselves?

It's the former, I believe. There's lots of rhetoric in eastern philosophy surrounded by this notion which I believe is simply just a stylized form of Perennial philosophy. Some people think that Tibetan monks are just sitting there not really doing anything, like it's all just anti-intellectual nothingness that one dwells on. Well, they're entering into mystical experience, of course, not all of them, just the ones who've mastered it. And they call this, depending on the sect of Hinduism or Buddhism; samadhi, moksha, nirvana, satori, etc. but all sects in eastern religion are simply various paths to the same goal. So, I don't think it's anything "out there." There's a story that Jung spoke about of a man in search for truth, and travels the entire world only to return home and eventually find it within himself. Perahps you've heard of Tat Tvam Asi, "Thou Art That." You are what you seek. And there's lots of eastern rhetoric revolving around the "the trap of seeking." Because you still have the notion of "you" that needs to "find" something. As Ramesh Balsekar once pointed out, and I quote, "The joke is even the surrendering is not in your control. Why? Because so long as there is an individual who says "I surrender" there is a surrenderer, an individual ego... What I'm saying is that even the surrendering is not in [your] hands."

In meditation, what is involved is the cessation of volition, and so consciousness is often likened to a pond of water. The ripples in the water represent your thought. In order for the pond to become still, it must be left alone. So, that if you attempted to straighten the ripples with a flat iron, you'd only create more ripples. That'd be like attempting to rid of your ego with your ego. Ego in eastern philosophy is associated with "doership." The act of volition or exercising your will. Of course, all that is easier said than done, but the speculation behind this is that we already do this every single night. It's called sleep. However, the conjecture in sleep is that subconscious thoughts take over during REM, and this is where N,N-DMT is speculated to occur. One guru said of meditation that it is a 'conscious sleep,' and sleep an 'unconscious meditation.'

It does elicit a different perspective, I believe. Because you return to ordinary consciousness with a new perspective. For instance, there is a common western misinterpretation of reincarnation where it's thought to be the transmigration of the soul from body to body. I might have trouble textualizing this metaphor, but I'll give it a shot. If you imagine a pool of water, and you throw a pebble at the center, and you see the concentric waves go outward. Pay attention to a single wave as it moves outward. Now, I ask you... Does it contain at every single moment the same body of water as it moves outward to the edges of the pool or is it simply a motion over the water while the wave at every instant to instant never contains the same body of water as when people in a large audience sitting across benches perform "the wave," as people raise their hands up across "the wave," this "wave" never contains the same people as it moves across? Perhaps you've thought about this before, and already know the answer. Well, that is the eastern view of reincarnation. It is the substance or as we say, atoms that move through us like the wave, but of course, it's a process that happens much slower in comparison to the wave of water in a pool. The ego is then seen as an illusion perpetuated by memory. So, when you ask, Does "universal truth" refer to realizations about oneself, and how one interprets the world... then I'd say yes. It even transforms how the very "self" is viewed and that drastically alters how one interprets the world.

I wanted to say one last thing, and I'm sorry for this running so long, but you said "cosmic truth" or "something divine." I really like "cosmic truth," because divinity has been tainted. I think it is something that perhaps could be inherent to the cosmos, but I enjoy how Hindus treat it. They know that it is ultimately nameless, but because communication requires that we transmute experiences into concepts, and concepts into words so that they can be communicated, we have to give "it" a name. That's why lots of eastern transcripts are written in dialectic form. But the "divine something" is essentially the "cosmic truth" from the Perennialist perspective, but of course, at the same time I wouldn't say that this is a theistic point-of-view nor truly atheist, it's a different view altogether in that it's a philosophical perspective on religion in general that regards "God" as something other than what the atheist is rejecting (hence, the thread title). But I like Cosmic Truth. Ramesh Balsekar would often have atheists attend his satsangs, and he'd adjust his vocabulary to appease them and say instead of "The Will of God," he had no problem replacing that phrase with "Cosmic Law." However, he was agreement with the atheist that "God" wasn't some huge computer in the sky keeping track of everything and everyone, and that punished or rewarded people when they die. He used "God" as source or "consciousness," anyway, I could go on but I don't want to leave a daunting wall of text that no one will ever read. So, I'll leave it here, and elaborate on another post based on any feedback, but I do enjoy all the feed back here.