The astonishing coded language written on microtubules, the skeletton of the cell, and how it points amazingly to design
The creator of life has left a wealth of evidence for his existence in creation. A treasure grove to evidence intelligent design is every living cell. Its widely known that DNA is a advanced information storage device, encoding complex specified information to make Proteins and directing many highly complex processes in the cell. What is less known, is that there are several other code systems as well, namely the histone binding code, transcription factor binding code, the splicing code, and the RNA secondary structure code. And there is another astonishing code system, called the Tubuline code, which is being unravelled in recent scientific research. It is known so far that amongst other things, it directs and signals Kinesin and Myosin motor proteins precisely where and when to disengage from nanomolecular superhighways and deliver their cargo.
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1448-kinesin-motor-proteins-ama...
Recent research helds that this code in a amazing manner even stores our memories in the brain and makes them available on the long therm.
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2182-heres-an-incredible-idea-f...
For cells to function properly, they must organize themselves and interact mechanically with each other and with their environment. They have to be correctly shaped, physically robust, and properly structured internally. Many have to change their shape and move from place to place. All cells have to be able to rearrange their internal components as they grow, divide, and adapt to changing circumstances. These spatial and mechanical functions depend on a remarkable system of filaments called the cytoskeleton. The cytoskeleton’s varied functions depend on the behavior of three families of protein filaments—actin filaments, microtubules, and intermediate filaments. Microtubules are very important in a number of cellular processes. They are involved in maintaining the structure of the cell and provide a platform for intracellular macromolecular assemblies through dynein and kinesin motors. They are also involved in chromosome separation (mitosis and meiosis), and are the major constituents of mitotic spindles, which are used to pull apart eukaryotic chromosomes. Mitotic cell division is the most fundamental task of all living cells. Cells have intricate and tightly regulated machinery to ensure that mitosis occurs with appropriate frequency and high fidelity. If someone wants to explain the origin of eukaryotic cells, the arise of mitosis and its mechanism and involved cell organelles and proteins must be explained. The centrosome plays a central role : it functions as the major microtubule-organizing center and plays a vital role in guiding chromosome segregation during mitosis. In the centrosome, two centrioles reside at right angles to each other, connected at one end by fibers.
These architecturally perfect structures are essential in many animal cells and plants (though not in flowering plants or fungi, or in prokaryotes). They help organize the centrosomes, whose spindles of microtubules during cell division reach out to the lined-up chromosomes and pull them into the daughter cells.
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2090-centriole-centrosome-the-c...
α- and β-tubulin heterodimers are the structural subunits of microtubules.The structure is divided in the amino-terminal domain containing the nucleotide-binding region, an intermediate domain containing the Taxol-binding site, and the carboxy-terminal domain, which probably constitutes the binding surface for motor proteins. Unless all 3 functional domais were fully functional right from the start, the tubulins would have no useful function. There would be no reason for the Taxol-binding site to be without motor proteins existing. Dynamic instability, the stochastic switching between growth and shrinkage, is essential for microtubule function.
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2096-the-cytoskeleton-microtubu...
Microtubule dynamics inside the cell are governed by a variety of proteins that bind tubulin dimers or microtubules. Proteins that bind to microtubules are collectively called microtubule-associated proteins, or MAPs.The MAP family includes large proteins like MAP-1A, MAP-1B, MAP-1C, MAP-2, and MAP-4 and smaller components like tau and MAP-2C.
This is highly relevant. Microtubules depend on microtubule-associated proteins for proper function. Interdependence is a hallmark of intelligent design, and strong evidence that both, microtubules, and MAP's had to emerge together, at the same time, since one depends on the other for proper function. But more than that. Microtubules are essential to form the cytoskeleton, which is essential for cell shape and structure. In a few words, No MAP's, no proper function of microtubules. No microtubules, no proper function of the Cytoskeleton. No Cytoskeleton, no proper functioning cell. Evidence is very strong, that all these elements had to arise together at ones. Kinesin and Dynein belong to MAP proteins. Kinesin-13 proteins contribute to microtubule depolymerizing activity to the centrosome and centromere during mitosis. These activities have been shown to be essential for spindle morphogenesis and chromosome segregation. A step-wise evolutionary emergence of eukaryotic cells is not feasable for one more reason, described here.
When incorporated into microtubules, tubulin accumulates a number of post-translational modifications, many of which are unique to these proteins. These modifications include detyrosination, acetylation, polyglutamylation, polyglycylation,phosphorylation, ubiquitination, sumoylation, and palmitoylation. The α- and β-tubulin heterodimer undergoes multiple post-translational modifications (PTMs). The modified tubulin subunits are non-uniformly distributed along microtubules. Analogous to the model of the ‘histone code’ on chromatin, diverse PTMs are proposed to form a biochemical ‘tubulin code’ that can be ‘read’ by factors that interact with microtubules .
This is a relevant and amazing fact , and raises the question of how the " tubulin code " beside the several other codes in the cell emerged. In my view, once more this shows that intelligence was required to create these amazing biomolecular structures; formation of coded information has always shown to be able only to be produced by intelligent minds. Furthermore: What good would the tubulin code be for, if no specific goal was forseen, that is, it acts as emitter , and if there is no destination of the information, there is no reason of the code to exist in the first place. So both, sender and receiver, must exist first as hardware, that is the microtubule with the post transcriptional modified tubulin units in a specified coded conformation, and the the receiver, which can be Kinesin or Myosin motor proteins, which are directed to the right destination to fullfill specific jobs, or other proteins directed for specific tasks.
Taken together, multiple and complex tubulin PTMs provide a myriad of combinatorial possibilities to specifically ‘tag’ microtubule subpopulations in cells, thus destining them for precise functions. How this tubulin or microtubule code allows cells to divide, migrate, communicate and differentiate in an ordered manner is an exciting question that needs to be answered in the near future. Initial insights have already revealed the potential roles of tubulin PTMs in a number of human pathologies, like cancer, neurodegeneration and ciliopathies.
Not only does it have to be elucidated how this tubulin or microtubule code allows cells to do all these jobs, but also what explains best its arising and encoding. Most of these enzymes are specific to tubuline and microtubule post translational modifications. They have only use if microtubules exist. Microtubules however require these enzymes to modify their structures. It can therefore be concluded that they are interdependent and could not arise independently by natural evolutionary mechanisms.
An emerging hypothesis is that tubulin modifications specify a code that dictates biological outcomes through changes in higher-order microtubule structure and/or by recruiting and interacting with effector proteins. This hypothesis is analogous to the histone code hypothesis ‑ that modifications on core histones, acting in a combinatorial or sequential fashion, specify multiple functions of chromatin such as changes in higher-order chromatin structure or selective activation of transcription. The apparent parallels between these two types of structural frameworks, chromatin in the nucleus and microtubules in the cytoplasm, are intriguing
Isn't that striking evidence of a common designer that invented both codes ?
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2096-the-cytoskeleton-microtubu...
Microtubules are typically nucleated and organized by dedicated organelles called microtubule-organizing centres (MTOCs). Contained within the MTOC is another type of tubulin, γ-tubulin, which is distinct from the α- and β-subunits of the microtubules themselves. The γ-tubulin combines with several other associated proteins to form a lock washer-like structure known as the γ-tubulin ring complex" (γ-TuRC). This complex acts as a template for α/β-tubulin dimers to begin polymerization; it acts as a cap of the (−) end while microtubule growth continues away from the MTOC in the (+) direction. The γ-tubulin small complex (γTuSC) is the conserved, essential core of the microtubule nucleating machinery, and it is found in nearly all eukaryotes.
This γ-tubulin ring complex is a striking example of purposeful design which is required to nucleate the microtubules into the right shape. There would be no function for the γ-tubulin ring complex to emerge without microtubules, since it would have no function by its own. Furthermore, it is made of several subunits which are indispensable for proper use, that is for example the attachment factors, accessory proteins, and γ-tubulins, which constitute a irreducible γ-tubulins ring complex, made of several interlocked parts, which could not emerge by natural selection. The complex has only purposeful function when microtubules have to be asssembled. So the, γ-tubulins ring complex and microtubules are interdependent.
See its striking structure here :
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2096-the-cytoskeleton-microtubu...
And this is probably the most striking part:
Memory is attributed to strengthened synaptic connections among particular brain neurons, yet synaptic membrane components are transient, whereas memories can endure. This suggests synaptic information is encoded and ‘hard-wired’ elsewhere, e.g. at molecular levels within the post-synaptic neuron. In long-term potentiation (LTP), a cellular and molecular model for memory, post-synaptic calcium ion (Ca2+) flux activates the hexagonal Ca2+-calmodulin dependent kinase II (CaMKII), a dodacameric holoenzyme containing 2 hexagonal sets of 6 kinase domains.
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2181-cell-communication-and-sig...
Here’s an Incredible Idea For How Memory Works
Cytoskeletal Signaling: Is Memory Encoded in Microtubule Lattices by CaMKII Phosphorylation?
Each kinase domain can either phosphorylate substrate proteins, or not (i.e. encoding one bit). Thus each set of extended CaMKII kinases can potentially encode synaptic Ca2+ information via phosphorylation as ordered arrays of binary ‘bits’. Candidate sites for CaMKII phosphorylation-encoded molecular memory include microtubules (MTs), cylindrical organelles whose surfaces represent a regular lattice with a pattern of hexagonal polymers of the protein tubulin. Using molecular mechanics modeling and electrostatic profiling, we find that spatial dimensions and geometry of the extended CaMKII kinase domains precisely match those of MT hexagonal lattices. This suggests sets of six CaMKII kinase domains phosphorylate hexagonal MT lattice neighborhoods collectively, e.g. conveying synaptic information as ordered arrays of six “bits”, and thus “bytes”, with 64 to 5,281 possible bit states per CaMKII-MT byte. Signaling and encoding in MTs and other cytoskeletal structures offer rapid, robust solid-state information processing which may reflect a general code for MT-based memory and information processing within neurons and other eukaryotic cells.
Size and geometry of the activated hexagonal CaMKII holoenzyme and the two types of hexagonal lattices (A and B) in MTs are identical. 6 extended kinases can interface collectively with 6 tubulins
Is the precise interface matching striking coincidence, or purposeful design ? Either a intelligent , goal oriented creator made the correct size, where CaMKII would fit and match the hexagonal lattices, or that is the result of unguided, random, evolutionary processes. What explanation makes more sense ?
The electrostatic pattern formed by a neighborhood of tubulin dimers on a microtubule ( MT ) surface shows highly negative charged regions surrounded by a less pronounced positive background, dependent on the MT lattice type . These electrostatic fingerprints are complementary to those formed by the 6 CaMKII holoenzyme kinase domains making the two natural substrates for interaction. Alignment of the CaMKII holoenzyme with tubulin dimers in the A-lattice MT arrangement yields converging electric field lines indicating a mutually attractive interaction.
So additionally to the precise interface matching significant association of the CaMKII holoenzyme with the MT through electrostatic forces indicates cumulative evidence of design.
there are 26 possible encoding states for a single CaMKII-MT interaction resulting in the storage of 64 bits of information. This case, however, only accounts for either α- or β-tubulin phosphorylation, not both. In the second scenario each tubulin dimer is considered to have three possible states – no phosphorylation (0), β-tubulin phosphorylation (1), or α-tubulin phosphorylation (2) (see Figure 5 B). These are ternary states, or ‘trits’ (rather than bits). Six possible sites on the A-lattice yield 36 = 729 possible states. The third scenario considers the 9-tubulin B-lattice neighborhood with ternary states. As in the previous scenarios the central dimer is not considered available for phosphorylation. In this case, 6 tubulin dimers out of 8 may be phosphorylated in three possible ways. The total number of possible states for the B lattice neighborhood is thus 36–28−8(27) = 5281 unique states.
So thirdly we have here a advanced encoding mechanism of information, which adds to the precise interface and electrostatic force interactions, which adds further cumulative evidence of design.
Motor proteins dynein and kinesin move (in opposite directions) along microtubules (using ATP as fuel) to transport and deliver components and precursors to specific synaptic locations. While microtubules are assumed to function as passive guides, like railroad tracks for motor proteins, the guidance mechanism seems to be through CaMKII kinase enzymes which "write" on microtubules through phosphorylation and encode the way to regulate motor protein transport along microtubules directly, and signal motor proteins precisely where and when to disengage from microtubules and deliver their cargo. That constitutes in my view another amazing argument for intelligent design.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Wow, 7 links to the same crackpot/young earth creationism forums (although since 98% of the posts are from the same user, probably should be called a blog).
so ? nothing to say about the content of my op ?
Otangelo Grasso - "The total number of possible states for the B lattice neighborhood is thus 36–28−8(27) = 5281 unique states."
Otangelo Grasso - "Six possible sites on the A-lattice yield 36 = 729 possible states."
Nice math fails. What is that, 3rd grade level math (the math a 8 year old can get correct)?
Mr. Grasso, if you expect people to read your threads, you should really slice down the length of said posts. By, like, a lot :)
Cheers :)
I've seen this before..... and the "misnamed "reason and science format......
Is that you Angelo ??? ...after all these years...and you're still pedalling the same old Lane - Craig nonsense..
You still down in Sergipe ?
What happened to your Realty business ?
and the Horn speakers ?.... I thought you were on to something there...
well ,well ,who would have thought it.......? You turning up here ..... well well....
Im not sure you'll remember but I do not feed TROLLs so I will not be engaging in your little games.....
and to any others on this forum I would point them in the direction of your self advertised forum....."reasonandscience"
a cursory overview will demonstrate that you spend inordinate amounts of time just talking to yourself ... but that was always the way ...wasn't it?
any way...catch you later....
Just spotted it ...it seems Nyarlathotep is already on to you.... I think you need to up your game ...or get some new material...
And you keep deluding yourself with your irrational world view ?
I loved how the website (basically dedicated to one person's shitty Christian apologetics) has ads for fake topless girl chat rooms.
Should I bother, or is it one of those times I will give myself an aneurysm trying to correct the nonsense only to have the author pull a Jeff?
please correct ......
@Otangelo Grasso
For the sake of argument, say your assumptions of intelligent design are correct. There are a few questions I would like to ask:
- What connects all the information that you interpret as supporting intelligent design, to your specific religion and denomination?
- What makes the Bible true and not the Talmud or the Quran? Or the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Shruti, the Tripiṭaka, the Bhagavad Gita, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Zoroastrian Texts?
- What makes Christianity true and not Baha'i, Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Wicca, Zoroastrianism, Druidism, Ancient Egyptian religion, Ancient Roman religion, Ancient Greek religion, or even Scientology?
The pragmatic
thats a valid question.
A cumulative case for the God of the bible
http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1753-a-cumulative-case-for-theism
www.christianforums.com
by Breckmin
Even if you prove that this world comes into existence due to intelligence or higher power, you still have not "proved" the God of the Bible or the God of Abraham. That must be done through accumulative case argument...and even then... it is an argument via providing evidence....it is NOT the same thing as empirical proof.
The first problem we have is that "proof" requires honesty on the part of the person examining the proof or examining the evidence.
If the person being presented with the evidence does not allow the evidence by definition of a particular field of study, then you have a whole system which denies certain evidence.
In contemporary evidential apologetics (rather than presuppositional apologetics) we build cumulative case arguments starting with scientific
evidence. First we need to show that science can allow for identifying the work of intelligence, even if you don't prove what the Intelligence is.
Then we proceed to show evidence that biological systems are the result of intelligence, once such evidence is allowed. After this, we move from identifying that something is the result of intelligence to allowing for theistic implications in science. This is to propose various "candidates" for such intelligence which is evidenced in biological systems. Then through other arguments such as the fine tuning of the universe, we argue for agnostic theism. Agnostic theism is a step in the progression of the cumulative case argument for the God of Abraham...but you must first
reach agnostic theism before you can proceed to "candidate creators" for
such theism. Then we proceed to argue for self-existence (Aseity) and other arguments which substantiate an eternal Creator... from there we argue for infinite Creator...and then from Infinite Creator to monotheism
and then from monotheism to historical orthodox monotheism being the
God of Abraham. It must be taken in steps, but it requires honesty on
the part of the person examining the cumulative case...and often involves
removing the blinders of naturalism/materialism in science.
Islam, Christianity and Orthodox Judaism all share this cumulative
case argument for the God of Abraham.... how we proceed in the
cumulative case for Christianity is a much more detailed step.
Ultimately we are not talking about "proof" like in repeated experimentation...
but rather a preponderance of the evidence.
There's no empirical proof for the Resurrection or the Virgin
birth. These too are based on faith and the cumulative case
made for Christianity.
Ultimately it is the conviction of the Holy Spirit to believe
in the miracles of Jesus and His Lordship/Deity.
http://cumulativecase.blogspot.com.br/2014/03/the-cumulative-case-for-ch...
The Cumulative Case for Christianity
Have you ever seen a TV show in which a criminal is being brought to trial, and the cops or prosecutors are lamenting over the fact that their case is entirely "circumstantial"? Or maybe the defense attorney is confident in a victory because of that fact? These (fictional) scenarios portray "circumstantial" evidence in a very negative light. However, the fact of the matter is, if you have enough circumstantial evidence, then your case becomes nearly air-tight.
The evidential case for Christianity is a very strong case because it is based a panoply of circumstantial evidence. Each piece adds more weight to the Cumulative Case for Christianity. Denial of any one piece of evidence is like trying to remove a single stone from a mighty fortress: you may think you have done something until you realize the fortress is built on a massive foundation. Yet to deny enough of the evidence to try to shake the foundation requires such extreme (and unfounded) skepticism that such a position does not hold up well to criticism.
It is really impossible to list all of the evidences in favor of Christianity, and also those in opposition to naturalism, which I consider to be the zeitgeist and current "en vogue" challenger to Christianity, but here are a few important ones:
The origin of the universe (sometimes called the Cosmological Argument: if the universe had a beginning, who is its Beginner?)
The fine tuning of the universe (sometimes call the Design Argument, or the Teleological Argument)
The origin of life (a scientifically intractable problem)
The Argument from Reason (how can we reason if Reason did not produce us?)
The Moral Argument (we all recognize a moral law; who then is the moral Lawgiver?)
Fulfilled prophecy in the bible
The resurrection of Jesus Christ
The occurrence of miracles
Each one of these, of course, has its counterarguments, but for each one the strength of the counterargument is that most would prefer a natural explanation to a supernatural one...even if the natural explanation is unsatisfactory, unsupported, and improbable (compared to the supernatural one). But there are only so many times you can plausibly deny pieces of the Cumulative Case before you have gone off the deep end into a hyper-skepticism that you would never apply to any rational decision you would make in any other area of life.
The Cumulative Case for Christianity is incredibly strong, is only getting stronger, and is here to stay. So hold on as we explore the depths of this Cumulative Case. Or, as Morpheus (quoting Carrol) said, "I'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Wow, impressive batch of not so valid arguments.
The only argument I see that actually connects to your religion at all is: "The resurrection of Jesus Christ"
But that isn't an argument, since there is absolutely no proof that such an event ever took place. It's hearsay. It's what you want to be true.
All the other "arguments" could apply to just about any religion and has no connection to Christianity.
Lets try with a simpler question:
Who were the first handful of people that told you about Christianity that you really felt that you trusted their words?
Otangelo, what is your goal for posting in this forum? What do you hope to accomplish?
a debate and examination of world views.
Mr Grasso, you appear to just want to convert people to your woldview