Way back in the times of Mesopotamia , considered the first civilization, religion was created. They had well over 2,000 gods they believed in. Each one of those gods stood for something in nature. If you did something the gods didn't like then you would be punished by the gods.
This was to instill fear so the citizens would not rebel. Over the centuries, more religions came to be. Each ones gods had standards that just so happened to be what the rules wanted. Some rulers even called themselves gods. People who make rules understand how to manipulate religion to give themselves power. That is why I refuse to kneel to some deity who for some reason decides what's right and what's wrong for me.
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I doubt that the Mesopotamians were the first to create religion.
I can agree that it probably isn't but it's the earliest that I've learned about yet. But this isn't even what my little rant is about. It's about how religion is a tool that is used to control people. Wich was important for ancient civilizations since without it they would have fell to anarchy. This little rant is about how religion was created to control people. I want to know people's opinions on that. Also, I know my wording is a bit (way) off but I meant way back in the past religion was formed and Mesopotamia was an example I was using of how it was used to control people.
Chimp's right. Check Paleolithic Religion out. The "Sima de los Huesos", in the archaeological site of Atapuerca in Spain is the earliest known burial ground,an approx 400.000 year-old necropolis of Homo Heidelbergensis. That's a sign of symbolic thinking, therefore some sort of religion.
I have no evidence of this, pure speculation, but I think dreaming is one source of religion. When we dream we go places we are not sleeping in, we see dead relations, we see what are construed of as past and future events. That makes the capacity fo religion very old.
Angiebot. I'm sorry if I'm not yet informed of earlier religions but with this discussion I would like to know people's opinions on how religions were and are used to control people.
No need to apologize, RatTail. I was just trying to give you a hand :)
Some basic control techniques I can think of: Indoctrination (much more effective when it begins in childhood), reinforcement conditioned system (future punishments and rewards), rituals (increase the sense of community), mechanisms for the expiation of our "sins" (prayer, confession, money, etc.)...
I sometimes engage in rank speculation that there might be a perverse form of natural selection for religions. It seems the most popular ones support the status quo. Almost as if that is a trait that is necessary to flourish.
Stalin was an Atheist, so too was Pol pot, and was also Mao tze dong. These were mega murderers in the world history.
But to say that they were murderers because of atheism would be about like me saying my house burned down because chocolate prices are fluctuating. There is no connection.
Need I remind you that if you pick even one major religion, the number of deaths caused in the name of that religion will likely be higher than all those caused by atheists for atheism?
That's because Stalin, Pol, and Mao didn't kill for atheism. They killed to solidify power. Which, ironically, is the same reason religious people kill in the name of their religion.
Hi, zwalya. Of course you are going to get the usual answer theists get when they bring up this tired old line: That they were not doing it in the name of atheism. This is true, but I also offer a deeper look at what you are trying to claim which I think works to put the responsibility for cases like these squarely back on religion.
These rulers actually did use religion to accomplish what they did. Not to say theistic religions, but religions where the state or it's ruler is the focus. It's often called a cult of personality when it's focused on an individual or small group. A religion does not require a transcendent being or anything supernatural at all. These "atheists" may have called themselves sectarian, government leaders, but they ran their countries like religions, complete with idol worship.
LOL
Stalin: Trained for the Orthodox priesthood
Mao: Educated at Buddhist and Confucian schools
Pol Pot: Educated at a Buddhist monastery and a Catholic school in Paris
Did anyone mention Hitler?
Ignatius of Loyola: Give me the child for the first seven years and I will give you the man.
Zwalja:
Do you notice any similarities in these pictures?
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
There's a controversy on Pol, because some historians think he was a buddhist.
Stalin and Mao installed political religions, similar to North Korea's, that is, the leader becomes the god, though embraced as a terrestrial deity. They used religious methodology and structures, and re-branded them with communist terms. They didn't commit their acts in the name of atheism, but they created their own religions, their own mechanism to subdue population based on gullibility.
oops, I didn't see your reply here. We basically said the same thing.
It's ok, CM. You certainly improved it. ;)
P.S. Jinx!
Improved? I don't think so. I thought yours was much more poetic.
I really appreciate your words, CM. I'm always afraid of being lost in translation or unbearable-to-native-eyes spelling or serious grammar mistakes.
Oh please! Your English is better than that of most of my fellow Americans.
New poster to Atheist Republic site. Not looking to debate per se, just to ask a few questions to gain understanding of atheists. First up is why/how did you become an atheist? Just a couple more after that - I promise!
There is a thread for that. This isn't it or you can start your own thread and ask that question.
Here's an article about religion in North Korea. It describes the achievements of the previous King, Kim Jong-il.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8965150/Kim-Jo...
Godlike attributes
1. His birth was heralded by a double rainbow and a new star.
2. He could walk at 3 weeks and talk at eight weeks.
3. He wrote 1,500 books and composed the six best operas in the history of the world.
4. He could control the weather by force of will.
5. The first and last time he played golf, he shot a 38-under par round with 11 holes in one.