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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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I don’t feel compelled to answer every question posed to me as if I have all the correct answers on every topic. I did pose a question about morality. If I answer a question and it is not a satisfactory answer in your view, I’m ok with that. Many of the statements/answers I have read from atheists are not satisfactory in my view. This does not mean they are liars or any of the other names some of you have given to theists. In order to tolerate another’s point of view one must disagree with it. I don’t see how if as some of you have claimed morality is subjective that you can complain I have written anything objectively wrong. I don’t speak for all theists nor do I possess all knowledge.
@AJ777
If you don't want to answer questions, don't make bald assertions.
If you don't want to answer questions about your religion, don't assert it is the truth.
If you don't want to answer questions about your faith's origins don't make erroneous statements about it.
Oh, wait, thats is just about your entire conversation so far...
AJ777 "I don’t feel compelled to answer every question posed to me"
You claimed it was your opinion that it is immoral to torture children, surely you know why you hold this opinion? Can you seriously expect us to believe you don't know why you think this?
That's pretty pathetic.
I would avoid answering them as well if I knew full well that the answers would make me look like a pompous ass. Then again, sometimes is simply best to face the music, admit you were wrong, and move on from there. Most people will have more respect for you if you can do that. It takes a big man to look at himself and simply admit a mistake. It takes a whiny ass to get all defensive, avoid, sublimate, attempt to shift the focus, and then whine and cry when held to task.
Answer the Question!
QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.
AJ777 ASSERTS ATHEISM IS OR HAS A WORLD VIEW:
STILL WAITING" ANSWER THE QUESTION! YOU MADE THE ASSERTION NOW DEFEND IT.
(Do not let him shift or wiggle out of a response to your questions. He does this over and over and over. Keep asking the question until he gives a response or admits he is wrong.)
The set of atheist beliefs.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or gods.
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Care to enlighten us? Atheism is generally a reaction to Theist claims that god's exist.. NOTHING MORE. What are these claims you assert atheists are making? There is no atheist world view. Atheists are liberals and conservatives. Atheists are secularists, Buddhists, New Ageists, Spiritualists and more... Where is this belief system you speak of? PROVE ATHEISM HAS A WORLD VIEW.
@ AJ777
And do not forget my questions. If you refuse to answer, then you are proving you are a Religious Absolutist. All they do is play a stupid “merry-go-around” game with doing nothing more than asking your questions, but not answering anybody else's questions, then the best solution I could give you is to voluntarily, “Leave now. Never come back.”
======================================================================
======================================================================
And do not forgot to address the questions directly posed and implied in this short essay...
There is no philosophical ideology more divisive than religion. Religion does nothing but pervert, demoralize, subvert, and bribe all persons with the belief that it alone possesses the one and only truth. And, the worst part of ANY religion is that it is an ideology that is implicitly and explicitly protected from any and all criticism from both within and without. Why should any ideology, especially religion, be so privileged? Can you not see how disastrous this way of thinking can be, and is?
I know religion is, and has always been, tremendously harmful to Humanity. I know that religions, and their way of thinking, and their theological disagreements, have created the greatest violence, destruction, injury, death, bigotry, harm, immorality, intolerance, wickedness, and abuse to the human species than any other cause. The main problem is not religious fundamentalism, but the fundamentals of religion. Religion’s loose version of “morality,” has NO place in a civilized society.
Sure. You can argue that it is the extremists, not the doctrine. All this says to me is that you have never truly read the various doctrines. It is both. Extremists might be using it as an excuse, but it is an excuse that the religious texts readily provide. I firmly believe, and shall take this belief to my grave, that the human species would have been much better off had there NEVER been ANY form of religion. EVER!
I see NO evidence of ANY gods, but plenty of evidence of religion’s harm.
And I am a lot more concerned with the welfare of my fellow human beings than I am about “offending” or “hurting the feelings” of a bunch of barbarians who choose to believe in the faerie tales of an obsolete, irrelevant, savage, offensive, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text about a make-believe imaginative Sky Faerie and Magic Lich Virgin.
Offended? So the fuck what!
Ultimately, it is Religion that is Humankind’s worst enemy.
On a further note, we have proven to you how your Christian religion is Pure Evil. All you have done is refuse to prove otherwise with your religious bullshit about "objective morality and objective truth," both of which we have proven cannot exist.
As said earlier, if you do not like being disproven at every turn, you do not have to keep coming here. You voluntarily came here. You can voluntarily leave.
rmfr
“On a further note, we have proven to you how your Christian religion is Pure Evil. All you have done is refuse to prove otherwise with your religious bullshit about "objective morality and objective truth," both of which we have proven cannot exist.”
How can pure evil exist without objective morality?
Prove objective morality exists or shut up. We have already proven all of that. The burden is now yours. Answer our questions or leave. Quit acting like WLC and answer the questions. If you ain't going to answer the questions, then go crying to mommy.
@ AJ777
======================================================================
And do not forgot to address the questions directly posed and implied in this short essay...
There is no philosophical ideology more divisive than religion. Religion does nothing but pervert, demoralize, subvert, and bribe all persons with the belief that it alone possesses the one and only truth. And, the worst part of ANY religion is that it is an ideology that is implicitly and explicitly protected from any and all criticism from both within and without. Why should any ideology, especially religion, be so privileged? Can you not see how disastrous this way of thinking can be, and is?
I know religion is, and has always been, tremendously harmful to Humanity. I know that religions, and their way of thinking, and their theological disagreements, have created the greatest violence, destruction, injury, death, bigotry, harm, immorality, intolerance, wickedness, and abuse to the human species than any other cause. The main problem is not religious fundamentalism, but the fundamentals of religion. Religion’s loose version of “morality,” has NO place in a civilized society.
Sure. You can argue that it is the extremists, not the doctrine. All this says to me is that you have never truly read the various doctrines. It is both. Extremists might be using it as an excuse, but it is an excuse that the religious texts readily provide. I firmly believe, and shall take this belief to my grave, that the human species would have been much better off had there NEVER been ANY form of religion. EVER!
I see NO evidence of ANY gods, but plenty of evidence of religion’s harm.
And I am a lot more concerned with the welfare of my fellow human beings than I am about “offending” or “hurting the feelings” of a bunch of barbarians who choose to believe in the faerie tales of an obsolete, irrelevant, savage, offensive, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text about a make-believe imaginative Sky Faerie and Magic Lich Virgin.
Offended? So the fuck what!
Ultimately, it is Religion that is Humankind’s worst enemy.
rmfr
rmfr
“Is it objectively moral to force children to believe in the Bible utilizing mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism? Is it objectively moral to force a belief in an entity that cannot be proven by utilizing mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism?“
You know you are being disengenous using these claims. Teaching a child the beliefs of a religion isnt wrong. Just like teaching your child “to be liberal” isn’t wrong. A parents only duty is to instill in his children what they believe to be true. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong empirically. If a parent believes the earth is flat and teaches that to their chnildren, I would never consider that child abuse, I would say the parents are uneducated but doing their best. Using words like “molestetation and rape” are obviously intentionally inflammatory of the worst kind, and do not at all acknowledge any truth of the statement.
“Where is that evidence”
The evidence is all around you. Whether you see it for what it is up to you. Do you see how one scientist submits scientific evidence to back up his claim but another scientist disagrees? The idea of empirical evidence is still up to debate in a lot of instances. Even scientists are open to biases.
Point 3. Christianity doesn’t claim that we are the only species in the universe.
4. “From whence comes evil and sin”
Evil comes from the anti Christ, Satan. Sin is anything in opposition of our Lords teachings.
5. “Who sends who to hell”
We send ourselves to hell. Christians believe we are gifted with free will. That means you choose you own actions. If you murder someone, that’s on you, not God.
DAE, you wrote, “A parents only duty is to instill in his children what they believe to be true.”
Horseshit.
And double "Horseshit." There is a difference between raising a child and raising a child to be an adult. Children learn what to think and never ask questions. Adults learn how to think and how to make their own choices and decisions.
@ DoesAtheismEvenMakeSense (DAEMS)
Then why is your deity so damned interested in only us lowly, primitive, barbaric primates? Why is your deity so damned interested in being a voyeur and watching what we do while naked in the privacy of our bedrooms? Why is your deity so damned interested in what we think? I could go on and on…
Origins of Evil
As stated many times by the Religious Absolutists, everything comes from God. Thus, logically, if “everything” comes from God, then so must “sin” and “evil.” I am going to use some comical logical deduction to show this.
You Religious Absolutists always say God has always existed as the only Self-Existing One. For you Religious Absolutists, God has no beginning and no end. Did not Jesus once say something about this? Revelation {1:8} I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord… Sooo… If God is the beginning and the ending, then it must also begin and end. Thus, let’s get this question out of the way. What was there before God?
Fine. Let’s just say God has always existed, no beginning, no end. Always there. One thing your precious holy book does not cover, “Who created the Angels and other supernatural creatures (principalities, seraphim, cherubim, dominions, etc.?” I shall use the term “Angel” hereafter. Did they also exist without beginning or end? Since God is the Umaälis (V: All Creator) and the Athanorga (V: Lord Fatherer), we must assume God created the Angels.
Sooo… God created all the Angels, including Lucifer, the Morning Star. Although it does not say any such thing in the Bible, I have read other religious treatises that say Lucifer was the most powerful angel of all, even more power than Michael. Lucifer was God’s right hand being the first amongst all the Angels. I have also read he was the most beautiful, and his true mastery was music and singing and light. Thus, his voice was the greatest of all.
Now for the mess. For God to create anything, it must first be thought. Right? Since God created all the Angels from its thoughts, then that means the mentality of all the Angels also came from God. If Lucifer supposedly rose up against God and tried to claim that power for himself, and this is described as “evil” in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, then did not that “evil” first come from God?
The true Original Sin was your deity’s creation. Your own deity created the ultimate sin simply by creating something besides himself. Thus, in summation, it is God itself that is ultimate evil and ultimate sin.
If your deity never wanted “evil” and “sin” to enter into anything, it should never have created anything at all. Think about it.
Wrong again.
Who Sends Who to Hell?
I do know the Christians always preach that it is NOT their God who sends people to Hell, but it is the people who choose to go to Hell. I think you Christians are so full of bullshit, that that is the reason why you cannot smell the stench of what you preach. However, I beg to differ that is the people who choose to send themselves to Hell.
If the answer you gave for all the questions above is “Yes,” then it IS your diety who is ultimately responsible for those it chooses to send to Hell. Anyone who forces criteria as to who gets saved and who gets damned is the same whom that is responsible. Forcing such criteria no longer allows the freedom of choice.
Think Critically about it.
If I had a dollar for every time I heard this one…
rmfr
EDIT: fixed HTML Entity
@DAEMS
Oh, boy! Fun time!!!.... *jumping up and down and clapping gleefully*....
Ummmm..... Okay, so try to follow me on this. I'll type slowly so you can keep up, because I know you may be reading while intoxicated.
Re: "4. “From whence comes evil and sin”
Evil comes from the anti Christ, Satan."
According to the biblical fairy tale, God made EVERYTHING. Hence, God made the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/Anti-Christ. Therefore, God made evil and sin.
Re: "Sin is anything in opposition of our Lords teachings."
...In opposition to our Lord's teachings, huh?..... Hmmm.... *in deep thought strumming fingers on desk*.... Damn! Just thinking about all the fun I have missed out on all these years. To think I could have been out there raping, plundering, pillaging, and murdering to my heart's content, and I would have been covered by the teachings of YOUR loving God.... *deep sigh*... Oh, well. Too late for this old dog to learn new tricks. Guess I'll just stick with my nice and quiet life of peace.
Re: "Who sends who to hell?.... We send ourselves to hell."
Yep, that's right, ladies and gentlemen! God has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. After all, just because God MADE hell to punish people who do not believe in Him and bow down to kiss His ass, it does not mean he actually wants to SEND anybody there. That would make Him a complete jerk. Why does everybody want to blame God for sending people to hell? You have to stroll your heathen ass over and jump into the fiery pit on your own free will. Makes perfect sense to me. Personally, tossing myself into a lake of fire and burning in agony forever is one of those things high on my Bucket List. But since God does not send us there, I have no idea where it is. Maybe I could ask him once I get to heaven? I figure he should at least be able to provide a map or give directions, since he IS the one who made the place. Then again, given His track record for incompetence, it is likely he forgot where he put the damned place.... *shrugging shoulders*...
"Teaching a child the beliefs of a religion isnt wrong. "
What an asinine vapid claim. Do you think the Westborough Baptist church's religious teachings are wrong? How about the KKK's religious teachings? Al Qaeda, the Taliban?
You've make a demonstrable absurd statement because it makes no effort to justify itself with any facts or evidence. It is a demonstrable fact that religious teachings cause harm to children, the only thing open to debate is which parts of it are pernicious and how much harm does it cause.
A child's state education should be secular, and if religion is taught it should be in an historical and broad secular context.
If parents sadly want to indoctrinate their children then they can take them to church. We all know why theists want religion taught in schools, now how about scientific facts and evidence that refutes religions form part of every church mosque and synagogue service, how'd that be?
Leave children alone until they're old enough to make an informed decision.
AJ777,
"How can pure evil exist without objective morality?"
How do YOU define morality?
How do YOU define objective morality?
"How can pure evil exist without objective morality?"
The same as every other time you have asked, it exists because it (evil) is a subjective human concept. Whereas objective morality is an unevidenced fantasy you can demonstrate no objective evidence for. Though of course we will all have noticed you have simply ignored the post and asked the same specious question again. Ironic given you won't give any candid answers yourself, but that's theism for you, all claims and questions, but never any tangible answers.
Why do you think it is immoral to torture children? Why if do you disagree with your deity in your bible?
We are back on frigging Objective Morality - THE OTHER QUESTION YOU DID NOT ANSWR.
NAME ONE OBJECTIVE MORAL YOUR GOD, THE ONE YOU WORSHIP, DOES NOT VIOLATE!
Do you think there are objective morals? Is God required to follow the commandments He gave to the nation of Israel? Are parents required to follow all of the rules they set for their children?
Uh Oh AJ, this is a dangerous question...
"Do you think there are objective morals?"
I haven't seen a single person in this forum, other than you and HumbleThinker believe there are objective morals. Don't open that can of worms!
"Are parents required to follow all of the rules they set for their children?"
I actually think this is a great point, and was thinking it myself. Curious what the others say.
"Is God required to follow the commandments He gave to the nation of Israel?"
Well of course, else they can hardly be defined as objectively moral can they? If your deity can arbitrarily decide what is moral out of sheer caprice when it's annoyed then it is axiomatic that objective morality doesn't exist.
" Are parents required to follow all of the rules they set for their children?"
Is it moral for a parent to kill their children if they're annoying and make mistakes? Your bible (which YOU believe is true) claims your deity does this. Your deity is not much of a parent then, so a bad analogy all around.
Why is it immoral to torture children? Why does your deity torture children and babies in your bible if it is immoral as you claimed it was?
Do you know how ridiculous you look, and how facile your beliefs appear each time you ignore these questions?
Poor response.
Another vapid facile post, that offers not one word in response to the post it's criticising beyond the petty derogation. All this does is illustrate yet again that you're "holding an empty bag" here, when confronted with meaningful arguments and criticism of your specious apologetics.
Quelle surprise...
If your God does not even follow them How in the fuck are they objective? All you are doing now is talking about divine command theory. If god says it, it is moral.
AND HERE WE ARE IN ANOTHER DIVERSION TACTIC.
Let's just keep changing the topic and being the pompous pretentious prick you have always wanted to be.
attempt to shift the focus, and then whine and cry when held to task.
Answer the Question!
QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.
AJ777 ASSERTS ATHEISM IS OR HAS A WORLD VIEW:
STILL WAITING" ANSWER THE QUESTION! YOU MADE THE ASSERTION NOW DEFEND IT.
(Do not let him shift or wiggle out of a response to your questions. He does this over and over and over. Keep asking the question until he gives a response or admits he is wrong.)
The set of atheist beliefs.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or gods.
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Care to enlighten us? Atheism is generally a reaction to Theist claims that god's exist.. NOTHING MORE. What are these claims you assert atheists are making? There is no atheist world view. Atheists are liberals and conservatives. Atheists are secularists, Buddhists, New Ageists, Spiritualists and more... Where is this belief system you speak of? PROVE ATHEISM HAS A WORLD VIEW.
Toad.
And you're now back to ad hominem fallacy.
Yes. Parents - Good Parents - Parents who set examples - would in fact follow all the rules they set for their children. That is a frigging no brainier. "Don't ride your bike in the street until you are old enough to understand traffic laws." "Play in the back yard until we are sure you know how to cross a street on your own." Even if parents did not actually follow the same rules when they were young, they know that not following them was fucking up. Are you saying God fucks up when he does not follow his own commandments? ANOTHER STINKING FALSE ANALOGY. Shitty parents, like your god, get drunk on power and try to dictate moral behavior in every situation imaginable. They make rules that not even they follow. Your god is the God of "Do as I say and not as I do." Well..... fuck your god. And frankly speaking, his worshipers as well. Especially the ones who will not answer simple questions.
Answer the Question!
QUESTIONS AJ777 refuses to answer.
AJ777 ASSERTS ATHEISM IS OR HAS A WORLD VIEW:
STILL WAITING" ANSWER THE QUESTION! YOU MADE THE ASSERTION NOW DEFEND IT.
(Do not let him shift or wiggle out of a response to your questions. He does this over and over and over. Keep asking the question until he gives a response or admits he is wrong.)
The set of atheist beliefs.
1. Atheists do not believe in god or gods.
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Care to enlighten us? Atheism is generally a reaction to Theist claims that god's exist.. NOTHING MORE. What are these claims you assert atheists are making? There is no atheist world view. Atheists are liberals and conservatives. Atheists are secularists, Buddhists, New Ageists, Spiritualists and more... Where is this belief system you speak of? PROVE ATHEISM HAS A WORLD VIEW.
Unlike their fictional deity, parents don't have limitless choices through limitless power and knowledge. Yet no parent in any decent society would consider it moral to, or be allowed to, kill a child that broke it's rules, let alone torture it, even after it has died and forever more at that. Their deity does this again and again in the bible they claim is true. Even murdering it's "children" when it's made no real effort to clearly and unequivocally communicate those rules.
I simply will never understand why religious apologists find analogous comparisons between the concept of their deity and fallible human parents a compelling argument for the obvious flaws demonstrated by their deity in the biblical narrative.
What could be more obvious or compelling than the whole bible bring human in origin? This explains the flawed narratives and why they so obviously reflect the ignorance, and prejudice of the cultures from which they were derived.
These parent and father analogies are just an obviously desperate attempt rationalise these facts without honestly addressing them.
Those who subscribed to the morality of the so-called Abrahamic god are unable to name a single act so immoral they would not do it if "god" asked them to.
Clearly, if an action is immoral for one being but not another, objective morality cannot apply.
Sapporo,
"Those who subscribed to the morality of the so-called Abrahamic god are unable to name a single act so immoral they would not do it if "god" asked them to."
Remember that the first nine on the Ten Commandments mandate the death penalty for anyone who violates them. Does cooking on the Sabbath really warrants the death penalty by stoning?
“Clearly, if an action is immoral for one being but not another, objective morality cannot apply.”
Why?
The state of California has laws that apply to those that live there. Those living in China are not required to comply with California law. God is not subject to human laws, but is the source of our moral law. If the life you live is due to Gods act of creation and will, how is it immoral of a Him to decide when the best time is for you to change location from a temporal existence to a different existence. Dying in the Christian worldview is not inherently bad, unless one has chosen to be separated from God. If you created a clay bowl and then chose to destroy it and make it something new and better, would you be an immoral bowl murderer?
You are actually comparing the State of California to the all powerful omniscient God all mighty. (FALSE ANALOGY.)
If you create a clay bowl and then destroy it, you have wasted your frigging time and should probably take up another hobby. If your parents created you and then destroyed you would they be immoral for murdering an idiot. Actually they would, BUT, we would all be better off for it. Immoral acts are not always horrible. Sometimes the death penalty is the lesser of two evils. Look at your own life. Worthless, useless, struggling for attention, friendless and alone. You have sunk so low that you need to troll atheist sites for attention and negative attention is better than no attention at all. Perhaps you should take up a sport like drinking or drug use and give us all a break from your inane assertions and false analogies.
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